INTERVIEW: Rep. Mark Harris on why he wants a long term continuing resolution, the North Carolina Senate race, and why Israel needs to destroy Hamas
Rep. Mark Harris lays out the GOP's different way of governing, discusses his recent visit to Israel, and more
As Republicans deliberate how to approach an oncoming government funding deadline, Rep. Mark Harris (R., N.C.) told the Washington Reporter that he is “far more supportive of a long term CR, like a year long CR, than I am a short term CR.”
“They try to sell us on the short term CR, saying, ‘yeah, but we'll get more appropriation bills and we'll be closer to regular order,’” Harris told the Reporter in an interview. “Well, that's just not reality. We're going to still end up with a CR at some point, and we're going to have this fight all over again.”
While Harris knows that the Senate will need at least seven votes from Democrats, he is optimistic that if “as Republicans, if we will just unite like we have done in the past, we could move a clean CR, a one year CR, and get it through the House.” Should that pass, he wants the Democrats in the Senate to “own the shutdown.”
One way that President Donald Trump will have an easier time passing his agenda is if Harris’s friend, Michael Whatley, wins the open Senate race in North Carolina next year. Harris said that his “plan is to do everything I can to turn out the conservative vote in North Carolina.”
“I'm fortunate to be in a strong red district, and my job is going to be to make sure that people don't become apathetic, to make sure that people understand that elections do matter, and we've got to have a ‘Trumponian’ turnout in North Carolina of our strong supporters to make sure that we get Michael Whatley across the finish line,” he said.
One potential ace in the hole for North Carolina Republicans is a midterm Republican National Convention, which Harris said he’d like to see happen in Charlotte. Whatley, as the former chair of the Republican National Committee (RNC), knows a thing or two about hosting successful conventions, and his campaign would stand to immediately benefit.
“We've got to make sure the American people know we are trying to govern and that we are trying to do government differently,” he said. “We're trying to make it happen, but we're going to be stonewalled by the Democrats in the Senate that will filibuster and try to slow things down.”
Harris said that Democrats are “looking at this, trying to figure out their own mess, because they would love to see the government shut down, because they simply want to slow down the America First agenda that President Trump has put forward, anything they can do to steal the news, anything they can do to somehow get our minds off the wins and the victories that the Trump administration is having.”
“Republicans,” on the other hand, he said, have “got to just stay focused on trying to cut spending, because I keep seeing every day, a $37 trillion debt that we cannot put on the backs of our children and grandchildren, and now great-grandchildren and great-great-grandchildren; we've got to make sure our fiscal house is in order. We've got the principles in place that are beginning to grow this economy. People are beginning to feel stronger and stronger about that, but I think that we've got to just keep things moving. And I don't think a shutdown is something that probably would be in the best interest at this moment of moving the president's agenda forward.”
Prior to Harris returning to Washington, D.C. to handle the government funding fight, he was both at home in North Carolina and on a lawmaker trip to Israel, both of which gave him perspective on the next challenges in Congress.
While Harris was home, he heard that “back in my district, everybody is wondering one thing: why are these other major cities like Chicago and LA and New York City not asking for the same kind of help and support?...They just look at the objective facts and they just wonder when others will do the same.” Trump’s work to crack down on crime is a matter of “common sense,” he said.
Another matter of “common sense” is the GOP’s push to reform higher education. Shortly before Harris’s interview with the Reporter the controversial president of Northwestern University announced plans to step down in disgrace, following years of scrutiny on his campus by House Republicans.
With schools coming back in session, “it’s going to be very important for us to watch the reaction of these college presidents,” he said. “If these college presidents can’t manage their campuses, then I think they need to do the honorable thing and that is to step away and allow somebody to step into the role of president who will protect all of the students on campus and make sure that they are able to have an environment where they can learn and live.”
Harris also rejected some Republicans on the fringe who have recently falsely accused Israel of committing a “genocide” in Gaza.
“People have got to understand, obviously, [] that Israel is going in to finish this war, and they are fighting, but we must all never, ever, never, ever forget that Hamas started this war and they're the ones that came across, they're the ones that committed the atrocity on October 7,” Harris said. “Hamas does not operate like Israel does. They don't operate like a democracy that we see in any other thing of the world. And if you start to believe that they do operate in that kind of way, then you're being played.”
While Harris has been to Israel before, his most recent visit was the most “heart wrenching” one he had done yet, he said, “because of the scenes we saw when we went down to the border at Gaza and walked into the kibbutz, which was one of the ones that was attacked on October 7, almost two years ago.”
“We also met with Prime Minister Netanyahu,” he added. “He is going to finish this war. He needs to finish this war. He knows what the risk is. We actually met and heard from the brother of one of the hostages, the one who had just recently, a couple weeks before we were there, had been used as propaganda by Hamas; they did the video of him forcing him to dig his own graves, he looked almost like a skeleton. They're obviously starving him. So all of those things were just realities that just hit us right in the face.”
Harris, a pastor, told the Reporter that his “prayer has been that the IDF is able to go in and that with the hand of God upon them, supernaturally, rescue some of these hostages so that they're going to be able to come back.”
“That's my hope and prayer,” he said. “But it is going to take the hand of God working through this to make it happen.”
Below is a transcript of our interview with Rep. Mark Harris, lightly edited for clarity.
Washington Reporter:
You recently had a hearing about religious liberty and free speech, and the balance that Europe is failing to strike in that space. Did anything surprise you from what you heard in that hearing?
Rep. Mark Harris:
Some of the things that surprised me came out from our research ahead of the hearing. I was not aware that in 2023, that British police had made 12,183 arrests for “offensive posts” on social media and other platforms, and that they used the British hate speech laws to do a lot of these. It was shocking to me that that number was that high. It then became increasingly clear that their Online Safety Act was used a lot of the time to charge people if what they had posted caused annoyance, inconvenience, or even anxiety to others, and that’s very, very dangerous. Your statement was spot on, that they need to strike a balance. Nobody wants there to be hateful speech, but the fact that they have gone so far is a problem, and the question is who gets to determine what is hateful? I raised the question in that hearing, ‘do you consider somebody posting Bible verses as being hate speech?’ And of course the answer given to me from the panel was ‘no,’ but I think that we need to be very, very aware of that. Those were concerning issues, along with the mother who received 31 months in prison for calling for mass deportations online; her husband noted that she got more jail time for that one tweet than many pedophiles and domestic abusers get. We’ve got to make sure that we don’t allow that kind of stuff to happen on our shores.
Washington Reporter:
Senator Tim Kaine recently said that our rights come from the government, and not from God. You were just talking about what’s going on across the Pond, but what’s going on across the aisle?
Rep. Mark Harris:
We owe Tim Kaine a debt of gratitude for exposing and making perfectly clear what they really do believe. He’s been a sitting U.S. Senator for a while, and for him to basically make the statement that our rights don’t come from God, and that they do come from government just gives the whole mindset. We can say that they believe this, but when they really admit it, that is really exposing them for what they are, and that’s a dangerous form of Marxism that we’re continuing to see happen, and we have to be willing to stand up to it, but standing up to it also includes recognizing it for what it is, and we see every day that the Democrat Party in this country is not the Democrat Party of our grantfathers or of our great-grandfathers, and for that matter, not even of our mothers and fathers. It has changed that radically and it has changed that quickly, and we need to be dealing with that.
Washington Reporter:
I want to talk about both Trump’s travel and yours. Trump is heading to Europe soon. What’s your message for him to take to the United Kingdom based on what you learned in the recent Judiciary Committee hearing?
Rep. Mark Harris:
Many of the same things that Vice President JD Vance said when he was in Europe. I got an interesting reaction about this when I was on the BBC just the other night. You can tell that they were offended that we were even having this hearing. They told me at one point that this was really hypocritical of the United States to even be having this because of how we’re trying to shut down free speech of students on college campuses, and I said ‘if you’re going to defend the anti-Semitism and the statements of the students on campuses, then you are way off-base, because we, in the United States, are not going to be willing to have students who are anti-Semitic and who are breeding that kind of hate, and who are against America as a whole, not only anti-Israel and free Palestine, but all of that kind of rhetoric that they go with — we’re not going to allow those students to be able to do that; that is totally discriminating against individuals.’ You have to support free speech and let people give their views on issues; that’s different, and I think that Trump needs to be aware of that and not let himself be trapped in the position they might want him to be in, like they tried with me on the BBC interview.
Washington Reporter:
Let’s talk about colleges. What do you make of Bill Belichick’s debut at UNC?
Rep. Mark Harris:
Well, I’m really interested to see what happens when they play UNC Charlotte, because if they start 0-2, that’s going to be a very difficult position for the folks at Chapel Hill.
Washington Reporter:
You were speaking about Secretary of State Marco Rubio revoking visas for students who are openly against the country that they want to study in. The President of Northwestern University just stepped down in the wake of these hearings on anti-Semitism; what’s coming next from Congress there?
Rep. Mark Harris:
It’s going to be very important for us to watch the reaction of these college presidents. Having had the opportunity on the Ed and Workforce Committee to question some of these college presidents, we try to hear from them about lessons they’ve learned, and if they did learn those lessons, they we need to see a different reaction this time, and that’s what I’m looking for as school gets back into session, as things begin to ramp up. If these college presidents can’t manage their campuses, then I think they need to do the honorable thing and that is to step away and allow somebody to step into the role of president who will protect all of the students on campus and make sure that they are able to have an environment where they can learn and live, quite frankly.
Washington Reporter:
While you were home during recess, did Trump’s crackdown on crime in D.C. come up with any of your constituents? And how does it compare for you coming back?
Rep. Mark Harris:
I would say that back home, yes, people are looking at what the president is doing in Washington, and they are very supportive of the steps that have been taken; they look at it objectively, and if you look at the over 1,600 arrests and the 160 illegal guns seized, and the missing children who were recovered in the midst of this, the carjackings going down, the murders going down, there were almost two weeks without a single murder. Back in my district, everybody is wondering one thing: why are these other major cities like Chicago and LA and New York City not asking for the same kind of help and support? This is really in that category, Matthew, that we talked about, of common sense, and my folks in my district have a lot of common sense. They just look at the objective facts and they just wonder when others will do the same. Just last night I walked to a drug store to pick up some items and I walked past an area where there was a little demonstration and people were making noise and all that stuff, and it was annoying, but the bottom line is that that was their freedom to do it. There were a few Metropolitan Police Department officers there who were monitoring it, but it was safe; I walked right by it, I didn’t feel any kind of danger. The idea that there are military tanks rolling down the street is the picture that the left is trying to paint of President Trump’s push for law and order as part of the America First agenda is just ridiculous. People are living their lives, they’re eating outside. Everything I’ve seen has been very positive.
Washington Reporter:
That’s an interesting contrast with what we talked about at the beginning, where in Britain you can go to jail for posting a meme, quoting a Bible verse, saying there are two genders, and here you are, walking around safely in America. Here are protesters who are advocating for more crime and more murder, and they're completely free to do so. What lesson can our friends across the pond learn from that anecdote?
Rep. Mark Harris:
I would hope that they would learn that free speech does mean that you allow people the freedom to assemble, you allow people to have their voices heard, and yet, at the same time, you protect those around them, and you protect the innocent. America is still the greatest nation on the face of the earth, and I'm very blessed to have grown up here, and am very blessed to be sitting in the halls of Congress now, and I think that folks across the pond need to just see the balance, observe it, watch it, because at the heart of it is our Constitution, and we seek to follow that. That's a very important aspect of this.
Washington Reporter:
During recess, you went to Israel — and I hope that you know that if you're ever in a bomb shelter in Israel, you know you owe me a phone call. What did you learn from that trip? Did anything surprise you that you hadn't already seen, heard, known about with your trips to the region?
Rep. Mark Harris:
It was heart wrenching. I've been to Israel five or six previous times — this time because of the scenes we saw when we went down to the border at Gaza and walked into the kibbutz, which was one of the ones that was attacked on October 7, almost two years ago now, that was gut wrenching in many ways. I would say almost in all ways, it is exactly the way it was the day after. They have not they've not cleaned it up. They haven't changed it. I had the privilege of walking into one of the homes where they just riddled it with the bullets, and I got to go back into the safe room. One of the things that Israelis are very, very good at doing is memorializing, and making sure that we never forget. So that was powerful. The other thing that continues to be in my heart and mind here, over a month later, of returning home, is the last stop that we made. That was to what would be considered our Arlington here in Washington, and we were just walking through the cemetery and seeing that on every one of the headstones, one of the things that they all have in common is that they have the age of the individual. And obviously, as I walked through and I was seeing 21, 23, 19, 24. It was just heartbreaking to know these are young people who gave their lives and have continued to give their lives for freedom there in Israel and to protect their country. One of my most moving moments was actually hearing the letter that one of these young soldiers had sent back; when they go into service, they have to write a letter home, in case something goes bad. And this particular letter that ended up going viral, in fact, I've got it on my phone, was from a young man who told his family that he considered it the greatest honor if they're getting this letter. And he died defending people, caring for other people, and defending his nation of Israel. And he made it clear in there and urged his family: do not twist my words and do not change my words, do not put anybody's life at risk for me, and if I'm, God forbid, taken alive, do not release criminals. Do not release terrorists for my safety. Things like that that were really, really powerful: to know the patriotism, to know the dedication and the courage of these individuals. It was incredible. We also met with Prime Minister Netanyahu. He is going to finish this war. He needs to finish this war. He knows what the risk is. We actually met and heard from the brother of one of the hostages, the one who had just recently, a couple weeks before we were there, had been used as propaganda by Hamas; they did the video of him forcing him to dig his own graves, he looked almost like a skeleton. They're obviously starving him. So all of those things were just realities that just hit us right in the face, and I continue to pray daily in my prayer, and I've told people since I got back, my prayer has been that the IDF is able to go in and that with the hand of God upon them, supernaturally, rescue some of these hostages so that they're going to be able to come back. That's my hope and prayer, but it is going to take the hand of God working through this to make it happen.
Washington Reporter:
You and I have talked about the differences between Republicans and Democrats on this issue. There's this minorly growing trend, not large, but Trump was recently talking about young Republicans, of which I still consider myself one, even though I just turned 29 —
Rep. Mark Harris:
You still count as a young Republican.
Washington Reporter:
Thank you — breaking from some of the more traditionally pro-Israel positions that you were just laying out. Do you think that is overhyped? You have one colleague on your side accusing Israel of genocide, but no one else. I'm curious what your thoughts are on that; is that an accurate assessment? I was just interviewing Tom Emmer about this, and he talked about how they're being brainwashed by TikTok. What is your message to people like that who are more skeptical of the benefit of Israel being a strong ally of America?
Rep. Mark Harris:
I had jotted down some thoughts on my flight back that 10 and a half, almost 11 hours long flight; I had plenty of time to think, and one of the things that that I wanted to emphasize that people have got to understand, obviously, is that Israel is going in to finish this war, and they are fighting, but we must all never, ever, never, ever forget that Hamas started this war and they're the ones that came across, they're the ones that committed the atrocity on October 7. They're the ones that have brought this to pass. And it's critical for people to realize that, and to also realize that Hamas does not operate like Israel does. They don't operate like a democracy that we see in any other thing of the world. And if you start to believe that they do operate in that kind of way, then you're being played. And that's one of the things that I've been emphasizing to people all the way back here; you cannot think of Hamas as a legitimate government or as a legitimate group. They are terrorists that are operating in and out of Gaza and controlling that area right now, and it's important for us to continue to emphasize that, and to stop blaming Israel. Israel did not bring this on. They are simply protecting their homeland and I think the patience with which Prime Minister Netanyahu has operated in trying to do everything he can and the negotiations he has done to get the hostages out is impressive. But the reality is they're not negotiating. Hamas is not negotiating on equal terms and that's just the reality and they know. Again if, we go back to common sense, common sense knows that when the last hostage is out, Hamas is done, that's all they got.
Washington Reporter:
Such a different way of looking at the world than we have in the West. They go for the Saturday people like me first, and they'll come for the Sunday people like you, so it's good to stick together.
Rep. Mark Harris:
The other thing I'll say that was a big takeaway, and I don't know if Tom mentioned this, because Tom was on the trip with me, is about the Democrat side. There were maybe a dozen or 15 Democrats that our trips did overlap with. There were a couple of days that we were together, and we shared Shabbat with them. On Friday night we were in a home, and there were a couple of Democrats who were part of that we shared together, my wife and I, with them in that home. Steny Hoyer was over there. It was his 22nd trip. He was with the group with me that was visiting one of the kibbutzes, and we were there together, seeing it. And it was just heart wrenching. I was on the train with him coming back just the other day from one of the office buildings and we were able to chat. I will say, we had to go all the way over to Israel. But going over to Israel made it so that we actually would sit down and chat and talk, and that created something. I think that's a good thing. But yes, one of the things we saw was the Gaza Humanitarian Fund initiative, and I think that's crucial. Who do you know other than Israel that pauses their fighting to make sure that they can get humanitarian needs into the folks? It makes you realize that when you look at Gaza, you’ve got 2 million Palestinians that are there, maybe 100,000 hardcore Hamas folks. And if each of them have three or four family members, you may be looking at another 300,000 or 400,000, so you talk about 500,000 people out of 2 million sympathetic to Hamas. Well, what about the other 1.5 or 1.6 million? And the reality is that they too are being held hostage by these thugs that are operating. And one of the things that I appreciated so much about the Gaza Humanitarian Fund is that they actually are getting their humanitarian needs through. They'd already delivered 110 million boxes of food into Gaza. Now they're being told by Hamas, don't go to those feeding centers. They're threatening the Palestinian people, saying that ‘if you go there, you'll be shot and killed.’ And they mean it; they're not playing. And yet, I thank God there are those who are willing to have courage to go and get the humanitarian help. But the whole difference between what they're doing versus the UN and how they're doing it is that the UN doesn't carry any weapons, and so their food just gets hijacked, taken, stolen, and then sold by Hamas on the black market at elevated prices in order to buy weapons and pay more terrorist soldiers. In fact, that was a staggering statistic. I ask folks all the time when I'm sharing what percentage of the Gaza Humanitarian Fund initiative’s food has been diverted or lost? The answer is 0 percent; with the UN, what percentage of their food has been diverted or stolen or taken? 87 percent. That's staggering when you really get down to that fact. What we're seeing with trying to get humanitarian needs, and that's what I've tried to point out, that's where Americans can help if they want to, recognizing the reality of what we're dealing with there.
Washington Reporter:
I could talk to you all day, but I want to let you get out of here quickly. Let's look to the month of September, and then to your Senate race. How do you see the next couple of weeks playing out? What are your priorities with government funding, and how do you resolve it, ultimately, in a way that doesn't give Democrats any room for using this against Republicans in next year's elections?
Rep. Mark Harris:
Obviously, I want to see us move all 12 appropriation bills. That's what we all ran on. We want to get back to regular order. We would love to see all 12 appropriation bills done by September 30, the fact that just recently, we approved our third out of 12, and we're going to be hard pressed to get the last nine done between now and the end of September. What I prefer is that we do that, but if that's not going to be a reality, and if we're not going to get it done, then I think you start looking, at CRs, and I, for one, am far more supportive of a long term CR, like a year long CR, than I am a short term CR. Now they try to sell us on the short term CR, saying, ‘yeah, but we'll get more appropriation bills and we'll be closer to regular order.’ Well, that's just not reality. We're going to still end up with a CR at some point, and we're going to have this fight all over again. The Democrats, I think that they're just looking at this, trying to figure out their own mess, because they would love to see the government shut down, because they simply want to slow down the America First agenda that President Trump has put forward, anything they can do to steal the news, anything they can do to somehow get our minds off the wins and the victories that the Trump administration is having, they're going to try to do it. I feel like as Republicans, if we will just unite like we have done in the past, we could move a clean CR, a one year CR, and get it through the House. Now with the Senate, we need to make the Democrats own this shutdown. And of course, I realize they've got to have those seven extra votes over there in order to get to 60, and that always becomes a bit of a challenge that they have to figure out over there. But we've got to make sure the American people know we are trying to govern and that we are trying to do government differently. We're trying to make it happen, but we're going to be stonewalled by the Democrats in the Senate that will filibuster and try to slow things down. But I think Republicans, we've got to just stay focused on trying to cut spending, because I keep seeing every day, a $37 trillion debt that we cannot put on the backs of our children and grandchildren, and now great-grandchildren and great-great-grandchildren; we've got to make sure our fiscal house is in order. We've got the principles in place that are beginning to grow this economy. People are beginning to feel stronger and stronger about that, but I think that we've got to just keep things moving. And I don't think a shutdown is something that probably would be in the best interest at this moment of moving the president's agenda forward.
Washington Reporter:
Finally, tell us — and North Carolinians — about Michael Whatley and Roy Cooper. What do they need to know about these men, and what are your plans to keep that seat Republican next year?
Rep. Mark Harris:
Well, obviously to the second part of your question, my plan is to do everything I can to turn out the conservative vote in North Carolina. I'm fortunate to be in a strong red district, and my job is going to be to make sure that people don't become apathetic, to make sure that people understand that elections do matter, and we've got to have a ‘Trumponian’ turnout in North Carolina of our strong supporters to make sure that we get Michael Whatley across the finish line. That's what I'm going to be doing. I know Michael's got some challenges. I've talked with him the other day at length. He's got a primary, quite frankly, and I think he is thinking he's going to use that to build his name ID. That's going to be important in North Carolina for us to get introduced to Michael Whatley, and he's going to have an opportunity to make that case. I think the president is going to make all the difference in the world. He's going to make North Carolina a priority. In fact, there was some talk about a mini-RNC that they wanted to do, which would be a midterm Republican National Convention. Some of that conversation has been floating around. I asked Michael about that, and he said, I think that may really be a real thing that the president's wanting to do. I said, well, I certainly hope so, and it makes good sense and that Charlotte, North Carolina, would be a great place to hold it if we do it next spring or next summer, but we'll just have to wait and see how that happens.
Washington Reporter:
You had the RNC in Charlotte get a little bit hijacked by COVID in 2020 so maybe you are overdue for another big convention over there.
Rep. Mark Harris:
I think it would be a great make up convention, and it would show the difference that Trump has made in the first year of his second term, that he should have gotten back in 2020, but thank God he got it in 2024, and now we're seeing the fruits of it as we go forward.
Washington Reporter:
Congressman, but Trump and Michael Whatley are lucky to have a friend like you in Congress.