Interview: Rep. Andy Harris previews the Freedom Caucus’s game plan
"Pound for pound, or on a per capita basis, we are the strongest caucus supporters of President Trump's agenda," the Freedom Caucus chairman tells us.
Although Rep. Andy Harris (R., Md.) will have his hands full as the chairman of the Freedom Caucus during a closely-divided Congress, he sees a huge opportunity for his members to secure the border and reduce government spending next Congress.
“With the narrow majority, it's really the President's leadership and the administration's leadership that I think is going to make the difference and make it all work,” he said in an interview with the Washington Reporter. “As I've said many times, pound for pound, or on a per capita basis, we are the strongest caucus supporters of President Trump's agenda, so we hope to work closely with the administration to advance those parts of the agenda that are consistent with our vision and mission. That won't be 100 percent, but it'll be closer than any other caucus.”
The Freedom Caucus, Harris said, has an unfair reputation for failing to act as a team player. “It’s a misconception,” he said, “that we're never willing to work cooperatively to advance a conservative agenda. We want to be perceived as the group that just reminds the conference, because it is a conservative conference, what the conservative principles are, and then work within the framework we have to bring whatever policy work we're discussing closest to that set of principles as we can and work cooperatively with them.”
“We have a reputation that there's no rule we ever liked,” he said. “That’s not borne out by the voting record.” The group staunchly supports President Donald Trump and his agenda, with Harris predicting almost-100 percent agreement.
Harris and his colleagues in the Freedom Caucus remain very willing to go against GOP leadership, and he and his allies scored a huge victory in axing the House’s continuing resolution this week.
One of the sticking points for the Freedom Caucus was the “$10 billion package that's being floated as the emergency assistance, is not,” he said. “That is just relief to farmers, because crop prices are low, input costs are high, and they just can't make ends meet in order to get the loans they need. Those two have to be dealt with very differently. Obviously, we should encourage all producers to buy crop insurance, because that would be covered, even during disaster, that's covered. With regards to emergency assistance, though, we have to, at some point, reevaluate what we're doing in the agriculture system, in the U.S., where our entire emphasis is on row crops, which have historically low prices.”
Harris’s series of problems with the now-dead continuing resolution notwithstanding, he is eager to work with some of Trump’s picks who will guide agricultural policy, like Brooke Rollins and Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. “As the past head of [the America First Policy Institute], Rollins is in with the Trump agenda,” he noted. “With regards to Robert F. Kennedy, Jr, I am 100 percent behind him on his nutritional programs. I've been trying for years to make the food stamp program, the SNAP program, nutritious and to allow states to ban non-nutritious foods... We’ve been running up against a brick wall. I think that brick wall is coming down with RFK, Jr.”
In addition to securing the border and working with Elon Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) to slash government spending, Harris said that he believes almost all of Trump’s popular tax cuts will be extended by the Republican House and Senate. “I think it’s nearly 100 percent that we're going to extend most, if not all, of the Trump tax cuts,” he said.
“But again, the devil's always in the details, because we are going to have to couple this with some significant spending reductions or savings in order to make it budget neutral, budget favorable,” he said. “Obviously there's some things like the SALT issues that we have to deal with that are kind of macro tax issues. But it's not the tax issues that I think are going to be the stumbling blocks. It’s actually going to be the accompanying reconciliation instructions that would require on the order, probably, of two or two and a half trillion dollars of spending reduction.”
“[We want to actually] control government spending and to cooperate with the Department of Government Efficiency,” he told the Reporter. “Pretty clearly, we are firm believers in government efficiency. We do believe that if the Trump administration does what they should be doing, and I believe will do, which is to have a reduced regulatory burden, then you don't need as many regulators.” Harris, a longtime fiscal hawk, added that “I personally think we should be looking at an across the board reduction in force in order to control some of the costs.”
The Freedom Caucus hasn’t yet taken a position on some of the big bills that Congress will take up next year, but Harris thinks that could change. One, the Kids Online Safety Act (KOSA), isn’t on their front burner yet.
“We haven't discussed it at length, because the Speaker’s kind of said it's not going anywhere,” he said. “There are things that are in the fire. This isn't one of the things in the fire, because we've got a lot of other things that we're discussing. Could we get to an agreement on that? We probably could, but there would have to be more free speech protections, more to address the concerns of the people who are afraid this might go a little too far. We all want kids to have a safe online environment.”
Another issue that Harris, a longtime doctor, feels strongly about is pharmacy benefit managers (PBMs). “I'll just speak personally, because our organization hasn't taken a position on this issue,” he said. “Price transparency is the most important thing you can have in a free market system. The health care delivery system is the furthest from a free market delivery system you could possibly imagine where, if you go into a drugstore right now or pharmacy, there could be 100 different prices on the exact same prescription depending upon who's the carrier, what deal was made with what PBM on any given year. That's not a formula for an efficient system.”
A former longtime co-chair of the GOP Doctors Caucus, Harris added that Congress’s reforms on PBMs didn’t “go far enough.” Harris said “that the whole thing ought to be just completely price transparent. And the PBM reform that we're told is going to be included in this bill does have some transparency provisions, but I don't think they go far enough. We should have total price transparency on everything delivered in health care, just like we have it when we go to a Walmart or we go to a grocery store.” The Freedom Caucus itself has yet to take up the issue of PBMs at length.
Despite his national perch as the leader of one of the most prominent caucuses in Congress, Harris has strong feelings about some of the issues that divide his constituents the most, like which crab seasoning is the best.
“I am an Old Bay person,” he said, delivering a blow to the rival seasoning, J.O.’s. “One of the reasons is that it's now owned by McCormick. McCormick's used to be headquartered in my state senate district. I knew most of the leadership, and they gave my daughter-in-law her first job out of business school.”
Below is a transcript of our interview with Rep. Andy Harris, lightly edited for clarity.
Washington Reporter:
Congressman Harris, congrats on winning your first full term running the Freedom Caucus. If you go through the chairmen of this caucus, you are the first from a reliably blue state. How does that inform how you want to approach running this for the next full term?
Rep. Andy Harris:
Well, although that's true, I'm in a reliably red district. Scott Perry was in a purple state, but in a purple district also. So I think it might be a little more difficult in that situation, but I view that as business as usual. Our chairs usually are from pretty red districts, with the exception of Scott after redistricting, but that's about it.
Washington Reporter:
On the note on redistricting, there's this idea almost emerging that Republicans are in the majority thanks solely to redistricting from North Carolina by Republicans. Obviously, you are in Maryland. Can you talk about how you've seen the Democrats in Annapolis try and do everything they can, even to almost potentially draw you out of office? What do you think about this idea that ‘oh, it's Republicans who love gerrymandering, and Democrats would never do something like this’?
Rep. Andy Harris:
Although parts of the media will try to spread that tale, the fact of the matter is, you don't have to look very far. You literally just have to look across the Chesapeake Bay or across the Potomac River to Maryland to realize that's just not true. Maryland has had two Republican governors in recent history, the last one was actually reelected. If we had a nonpartisan redistricting plan in Maryland, we would have at least two Republican districts and maybe one or two swing districts as well. So clearly, Maryland is gerrymandered to be a seven to one state. You can say the same thing about the Democrats in Maryland that you can say about the Republicans in North Carolina. Each party takes advantage of it when it’s in the majority of its state legislature.
Washington Reporter:
There's a tiny GOP majority in Congress. How do you want to position the Freedom Caucus with the House GOP leadership to be most effective going into the next two years?
Rep. Andy Harris:
With the narrow majority, it's really the President's leadership and the administration's leadership that I think is going to make the difference and make it all work. As I've said many times, pound for pound, or on a per capita basis, we are the strongest caucus supporters of President Trump's agenda, so we hope to work closely with the administration to advance those parts of the agenda that are consistent with our vision and mission. That won't be 100 percent, but it'll be closer than any other caucus.
Washington Reporter:
You'll have been the Freedom Caucus chair while Biden was president and while Trump is president again. What are you particularly excited about to work on with the incoming Trump administration, in terms of your policy agenda?
Rep. Andy Harris:
Well, the first thing is obviously on the border. The Freedom Caucus has always been a staunch supporter of secure borders, just like the President has, and I think we might get that opportunity coming right out of the box in January. We've taken a position supporting the two pronged reconciliation approach. The first prong is a very rapidly passed, hopefully very non-controversial border security bill. And then leave the larger reconciliation act till later in the year, because it's just going to be much more complicated.
Washington Reporter:
Going into next Congress, where do you see road bumps?
Rep. Andy Harris:
Well, obviously, we have some big things we have to deal with pretty soon. We have to deal with a debt ceiling that technically we hit in the beginning of January, but realistically, with the efforts that the Treasury usually makes, it probably won't hit until April or May. We have to deal with that. We obviously have to deal with passing the FY25 spending bill. We have to pass at least one and probably two reconciliation bills by March. Obviously, we believe that the border bill can be done very, very quickly, but then we have to move fairly expeditiously into at least the budget and reconciliation instructions, hopefully by the end of March, in order to wrap all these issues up by June or July.
Washington Reporter:
At the end of Kamala Harris’s campaign, Harris tried to make an issue of the Trump tax cuts. What do you think the odds of continuing tax reform are?
Rep. Andy Harris:
I think it’s nearly 100 percent that we're going to extend most, if not all, of the Trump tax cuts. There's broad agreement. But again, the devil's always in the details, because we are going to have to couple this with some significant spending reductions or savings in order to make it budget neutral, budget favorable. The devil's going to be in those details. Obviously there's some things like the SALT issues that we have to deal with that are kind of macro tax issues. But it's not the tax issues that I think are going to be the stumbling blocks. It’s actually going to be the accompanying reconciliation instructions that would require on the order, probably, of two or two and a half trillion dollars of spending reduction.
Washington Reporter:
You've been in the GOP Doctors Caucus for a while. Trump weighed in on this question about pharmacy benefit managers. What's your perspective on that as someone who practiced medicine for a long time? What do you think that industry should look like, and how should it be looked at by Congress?
Rep. Andy Harris:
I'll just speak personally, because our organization hasn't taken a position on this issue. Price transparency is the most important thing you can have in a free market system. The health care delivery system is the furthest from a free market delivery system you could possibly imagine where, if you go into a drugstore right now or pharmacy, there could be 100 different prices on the exact same prescription depending upon who's the carrier, what deal was made with what PBM on any given year. That's not a formula for an efficient system. So I just believe that the whole thing ought to be just completely price transparent. And the PBM reform that we're told is going to be included in this bill does have some transparency provisions, but I don't think they go far enough. We should have total price transparency on everything delivered in health care, just like we have it when we go to a Walmart or we go to a grocery store.
Washington Reporter:
How do you approach issues as a congressman in Maryland's 1st District and as chair of the Freedom Caucus?
Rep. Andy Harris:
If you're in an R plus-12 district or so, normally, those things are aligned. But there's an occasional issue. I'll give you one, the H-2B temporary seasonal worker issue, where there's some people in the caucus who are like, ‘we should be dialing these foreign worker programs back,’ whereas, obviously in my district, because of the seafood industry, tourism industry, these are hugely important to the local economy. So I do view some issues different from some members of the caucus, but most we’re aligned. I'm in a very conservative district.
Washington Reporter:
Given your vantage point on the agriculture subcommittee on the Appropriations Committee, what's going on with the farm aid provision in the CR? How did this get in there?
Rep. Andy Harris:
There are two different major buckets that are in this bill. One is the $21 billion, and it's actually $21 billion plus a few other little pieces, that's emergency relief. So that is for disaster aid. That is, you're a farmer, you got flooded out by one of the hurricanes. This is disaster relief. The $10 billion package that's being floated as the emergency assistance, is not. That is just relief to farmers, because crop prices are low, input costs are high, and they just can't make ends meet in order to get the loans they need. Those two have to be dealt with very differently. Obviously, we should encourage all producers to buy crop insurance, because that would be covered even during disaster that's covered. With regards to emergency assistance, though, we have to, at some point, reevaluate what we're doing in the agriculture system, in the U.S., where our entire emphasis is on row crops, which have historically low prices. Right now, while we are now importing tens of billions of dollars, we now are our net agricultural importer. This is new. Until four years ago, we've always been a net agricultural exporter. Now, because of basically fruits and vegetables, we are a net importer in the tens of billions of dollars range. So we have to actually ask whether this emergency assistance, not the disaster assistance, the emergency assistance is because we have lost some of the free market principles of what we should be growing. So, for instance, because of Brazil's increasing contribution to the worldwide agriculture economy in terms of output, it is going to keep row crop prices down for a while. There is no magic bullet here. We are going to expand E15 a little bit. That's not going to be a magic bullet. That's not going to cause the price of these crops to rise, because they're all on an international market now with major overseas competitors. So one has to ask, should we reconsider whether or not we should actually encourage transforming the market of some of our producers, into growing a variety of crops, especially horticultural crops, in fruits and vegetables?
Washington Reporter:
Sticking with agriculture, what do you think about Brooke Rollins as Agriculture Secretary and RFK Jr., at HHS? Both of these two people, assuming they get confirmed, are going to have big influence on agriculture policy.
Rep. Andy Harris:
Brooke Rollins has an agriculture background. She hasn't done it in a policy point of view, but my understanding is she was in the agriculture industry. She went to an agricultural college. I think she'll understand the basics. And obviously, as the past head of AFPI, she is in with the Trump agenda. With regards to Robert F. Kennedy, Jr, I am 100 percent behind him on his nutritional programs. I've been trying for years to make the food stamp program, the SNAP program, nutritious and to allow states to ban non-nutritious foods, it wouldn't be a federal ban, it would just allows states to do it. We’ve been running up against a brick wall. I think that brick wall is coming down with RFK Jr. I think he's going to have a willing participant with Brooke Rollins. And I think we're going to get that rolling. We're actually going to change the way America thinks about nutrition in a very positive way, and wearing my doctor hat, that's very important right now. The chronic diseases that we are dealing with that are actually bankrupting us in our Medicaid and Medicare program are diabetes, hypertension, overweight, obesity, all cancer, all things that are diet-linked.
Washington Reporter:
One of the other big issues heading into the next Congress is the Kids Online Safety Act. Is this a bill that you see that the Freedom Caucus would ever back in any form?
Rep. Andy Harris:
We haven't discussed it at length, because the Speaker’s kind of said it's not going anywhere. There are things that are in the fire. This isn't one of the things in the fire, because we've got a lot of other things that we're discussing. Could we get to an agreement on that? We probably could, but there would have to be more free speech protections, more to address the concerns of the people who are afraid this might go a little too far. We all want kids to have a safe online environment.
Washington Reporter:
What are other things that are in that proverbial fire?
Rep. Andy Harris:
Well, a secure border is one. The other one is actually to control government spending and to cooperate with the Department of Government Efficiency. Pretty clearly, we are firm believers in government efficiency. We do believe that if the Trump administration does what they should be doing, and I believe will do, which is to have a reduced regulatory burden, then you don't need as many regulators. It's pretty clear. So I think that since these regulations are really across the board regulations, there's no agency in Washington that doesn't have too many regulations. As you go across that, I personally think we should be looking at an across the board reduction in force in order to control some of the costs. And of course, again, as long as you reduce the regulatory burden, the average person interacting with the agencies is certainly not going to have a worse experience, and might have a better experience because of the decrease in regulatory burden. Clearly, we're going to have to deal with with defense issues. The defense budget is one of the largest and growing budgets. And there are people in the caucus who, I think rightfully, have skepticism about whether or not our Pentagon is spending money on things they shouldn't be spending money on. And we know that's true. We know the DEI stuff going on. That they're spending dollars on this is crazy. Green fuel for the Navy. I'm a former Navy guy. I'm sorry, but as long as the Russians and Chinese are not using green fuel, which is more expensive, we shouldn't be using it. Electric vehicles in combat zones, these are crazy ideas. These are just things that we just have to bring out of the Pentagon. But even more importantly, personally, and I think a lot of members would agree is that we have to have a Pentagon that's not fighting a 20th century war in the 21st century. When you look at troop levels, at the types of weapons we have, we have to decide whether we have the right mix or not. A hypersonic missile, unless we have an adequate defense, renders our carrier fleet worthless, really. And yet, these are such huge ticket items in the defense budget; we have to take a 21st century look at what we're doing in the Department of Defense and make sure that we're not spending in places that we shouldn't be spending.
Washington Reporter:
DEI in the Pentagon has been exposed by this Congress. Do you think that extends to some of the contractors that want business with the Pentagon in the Trump administration, who are themselves promoting DEI internally? We’ve written about how Lockheed Martin does this. Is that something that concerns you as you allocate billions of dollars to these companies?
Rep. Andy Harris:
Sure. Pretty clearly, contractors in the federal government, government-wide, have been coerced into this idea that you have to make DEI integral in order to even be considered competitive for the government to look favorably upon you, on your company. Even if it wasn't explicit, it was kind of implicit in what was in the attitudes. And I've talked to contractors who have said, ‘this is crazy. I feel like I have to do this in order to compete for a federal contract.’ Well, hopefully all that goes out the window. That's just another regulatory burden. I think it's not consistent with Supreme Court rulings. I think in the long run, they’ll probably be overturned. But again, the administration, through executive action, will take care of all that.
Washington Reporter:
Politically, where do you see the House Freedom Caucus wanting to expand in 2026? Where are you looking at trying to help retain members and potentially get new members?
Rep. Andy Harris:
I don't think anybody's looked at 2026 that close yet. It's funny because of course, a lot of speculation is already about the 2028 candidates for president, though, on the Democrats’ side, which is just fascinating. But no, we really haven't begun to look. Obviously we’re going to have special elections. I think we're going to look at the candidates in those races and see if some of those districts will elect the Freedom Caucus candidate. We obviously compete with the president for bandwidth in these races. The President has large say in who's going to prevail in a lot of these races. So I think we're going to have to see what the first year looks like and kind of get a feeling of where we can align with the president in some of the districts that potentially could be ones where we could prevail. I personally think that if we play this right, this will look like 2002 rather than other midterms. In 2002, George W. Bush made an argument to the American people after September 11, that strength is important. We did all right in the midterms. I think that could happen again, and I think that we would operate under a very different set of conditions. President Trump's favorability is at the highest level it's ever been right now, and Joe Biden's is at the lowest: 37 percent. That is only to be exceeded at this point in the presidency, at the low level, by Jimmy Carter in the modern era. And I remember Jimmy Carter. I was there. Let me tell you something: that was pretty miserable.
Washington Reporter:
He looks more alive than Joe Biden does.
Rep. Andy Harris:
I think it remains to be seen. If we succeed in securing the border, we succeed in bringing down inflation, which is going to be a little more difficult because of the spending of the Biden administration, including the spending going out the door, I think we could win the midterm, which would vary from history. In the Senate, with the Senate map looks, it could be a heavy lift in the Senate too, but it's possible if we deliver it to the American people. I think we're living in a completely unprecedented time. I'm 67 years old and I've lived through a lot of presidential elections. There's never been a feeling like this, even when Reagan was elected in 1980, the feeling was different than it is now. Although the messaging was pretty similar with Reagan, that it's morning in America, this just feels different. There is an unhappiness among the American public that we could cure.
Washington Reporter:
You're mentioning the special elections. What would you look for in a candidate to say, ‘it's worth us going in here?’
Rep. Andy Harris:
It would be someone who said ‘we're gonna be with you, especially in these struggles to bring fiscal responsibility to Washington.’ That's probably the thing that threatens us the most, is our fiscal irresponsibility. I do think that both parties are guilty of it.
Washington Reporter:
What is the biggest misconception about the Freedom Caucus that you want to clear up going into the next Congress?
Rep. Andy Harris:
That we're never willing to work cooperatively to advance a conservative agenda, but that actually is what we want to do. We want to be perceived as the group that just reminds the conference, because it is a conservative conference, what the conservative principles are, and then work within the framework we have to bring whatever policy work we're discussing closest to that set of principles as we can and work cooperatively with them. We have a reputation that there's no rule we ever liked. That’s not borne out by the voting record.
Washington Reporter:
I've been told you're an avid mechanic. How’d you come to be such a thing?
Rep. Andy Harris:
My dad actually did a few little things on a car. So like most kids, I wanted to be like, and one-up my dad. So I learned a little more about mechanics. And then, of course, my son and my stepson both kind of one-upped me, because they're even better mechanics. I was just thinking on the drive in, I’ve got to do a rear brake job on my van that I drove in. I’ve got to figure out which brake it is, and I'm gonna have to do a brake job over Christmas on it.
Washington Reporter:
This might be my most controversial question, Old Bay or J.O.’s seasoning?
Rep. Andy Harris:
I am an Old Bay person.
Washington Reporter:
Okay, that's the correct answer.
Rep. Andy Harris:
One of the reasons is that it's now owned by McCormick. McCormick's used to be headquartered in my state senate district. I knew most of the leadership, and they gave my daughter-in-law her first job out of business school.
Washington Reporter:
It tastes good. It's good for the family. Congressman Harris, thanks so much for your time.