INTERVIEW: National Archivist’s top advisor dives into RFK Files: Sirhan still theorized as lone assassin, but people should make up their own minds
THE LOWDOWN:
Fifty-seven years after his death, the files surrounding then-Senator Robert F. Kennedy, Sr.’s assassination are rolling out for release.
Jim Byron, the new Senior Advisor to the Acting Archivist spoke with the Washington Reporter in his office, located just 100 steps from the Declaration of Independence, about the newly-declassified files, and what they showed.
“In these 10,000 documents, there’s no smoking gun,” Byron said. Many of these documents, he noted, had never been seen before by the public.
The new documents, released via NARA, include the entire FBI field office of San Diego’s files, along with diplomatic cables from countries offering their condolences and assistance in the investigation, along with Sirhan’s diary.
In an infamous moment of American history, then-Sen. Robert F. Kennedy, Sr., was assassinated while he was running for President of the United States.
Fifty-seven years later, in 2025, President Donald Trump signed an executive order declassifying the files related to this assassination, and Jim Byron, the new Senior Advisor to the Acting Archivist, has a front-row seat to this from his perch at National Archives and Records Administration (NARA).
Byron spoke with the Washington Reporter in his office, located just 100 steps from the Declaration of Independence, about the newly-declassified files, and what they showed.
Byron wants Americans to visit archives.gov/rfkand read the 10,000 files that Director of National Intelligence (DNI) Tulsi Gabbard declassified last week. When asked about how Americans should approach the documents, Byron said that the conventional wisdom — that Sirhan Sirhan, a Palestinian furious about RFK’s support for Israel, acted alone and murdered RFK — holds up, for now.
“In these 10,000 documents, there’s no smoking gun,” Byron said. Many of these documents, he noted, had never been seen before by the public.
“This is mostly brand new stuff,” Byron continued. This was “the biggest release of RFK assassination-related files ever released at once,” Byron added.
The new documents, released via NARA, include the entire FBI field office of San Diego’s files, along with diplomatic cables from countries offering their condolences and assistance in the investigation, along with Sirhan’s diary. Jordan, for example, reached out to the FBI to let the agency know that it would help with research into Sirhan, a Jordanian-Palestinian.
“[Sirhan’s] diary certainly indicated prior intent for sure,” Byron said. “The FBI’s conclusion was he was the guy.”
For years, Byron has studied the 1960s and 1970s as the head of the Richard Nixon Foundation. Until his start at NARA, he had primarily focused on Kennedy as a political icon and had not delved too deeply into the assassination itself. But, Byron is an historian and said the findings up to this point largely pointed to one theory.
“Based on these 10,000 documents, and what has been released, there’s not a lot of evidence in these documents that it was anyone other than Sirhan Sirhan,” he said.
But, Byron repeatedly cautioned that readers should make up their own minds and weigh any new evidence in these files.
One theory surrounding the assassination is that a woman in a polka dot dress was present at the site and left with a smile on her face, saying “We shot Kennedy.”
“People have different memories. But that's in there. People can dive into these for themselves, and they're a piece of a larger puzzle,” Byron said.
Byron said that Kennedy’s son, Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., was informed of the files and had a simple response to both Trump and Gabbard: release them all.
Amidst the release of these files, Gabbard said that the FBI told her that it found approximately 50,000 more. Byron said that those will have to go through the same process that these initial 10,000 did, and will be released in due time.
“I don't think that 100 percent of the people who are skeptical are ever going to be happy, but what we can be certain of is that we, the National Archives, release 100 percent of what we know to be out there, so that people can make up their minds, and so we can say ‘everything is out, make up your own minds,’ and we're working on that right now,” Byron said.
Below is a transcript of our interview with Jim Byron the Senior Advisor to Acting Archivist, lightly edited for clarity.
Washington Reporter:
You had an interesting and historic trip last week to Maryland with the Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard. Can you talk about what you saw and how that came about?
Jim Byron:
It was a big deal that the Director of National Intelligence paid a visit to the National Archives to announce the release of these 10,000 pages, the first tranche of files related to the assassination of Senator Robert F. Kennedy. We at NARA had been working with Director Gabbard's team, and she established a group called the Director’s Initiative Group, and she actually dispatched individuals who work at the ODNI to come to the National Archives to help prepare these documents for release. She also helped facilitate a great working relationship government-wide with other agencies to review this material, which really helps speed up the process and we at the National Archives are now excited because we have learned a lot from this process, and we can now take this process and make this standard operating procedure, from eight to five every day to be making these documents available to the American people. And that process, I think, is really interesting. I'd like to talk about for a minute, because it's not well understood. It can take quite a bit of time, because first of all, these files have to be located. A substantial number of files reside at the National Archives, but a lot of these files actually still reside with the originating agencies. For example, it was well publicized that prior to the release of the JFK files, the FBI discovered 20,000 new documents, so those had to be brought over to the National Archives and be part of the JFK collection. So what happens when a document or a record series gets ready for release? First of all, everything needs to be identified. Then they need to be hand sorted. We're talking about original paper records here. So they can be of different sources of material. They can be a regular piece of paper, it could be an onion skin, a copy from a typewriter 60 years ago that might be not in the best shape. They could have staples or brackets, that all needs to be removed. So that actually takes the majority of the time. So when they are prepared for digitization, they need to get bar coded, they need to be identified in such a way so that when they are scanned and they're put up online, they can be indexed. Metadata is put into those documents. They can be keyword searchable, and NARA has the tools to do that. So then they go through the digitization. They go through these rapid digitization scanners that can scan up to 250 pages per minute, and then they are posted online. So again, depending upon the scope and how many pages we're talking about, this could take years. There are 13 and a half billion pages of documents at the National Archives, and we're doing three high density scanners. That's it.
Washington Reporter:
How much of this changed when you started? It sounds like this has been a top priority for you that wasn’t necessarily here before.
Jim Byron:
Absolutely. It starts with President Trump and his executive order issuing the release of the JFK, RFK, and MLK files. And then we went right into action. And I made this a priority from the very first days, we took a look at everything in the existing process. I said in my welcome message we were going to take a look at everything. We took a look at the processes about how we digitize these documents to get them out, and we said, we have to speed this up.
Washington Reporter:
Can you explain how with ODNI this process of declassification works visa a vs NARA? Would you have been able to look at these documents yourself prior to this declassification executive order?
Jim Byron:
So generally, what has happened in the past is that NARA doesn't review and release an entire record series together. It has not been priority in the past to say, ‘we better get the RFK documents out.’ It was instead was viewed as if you, as a researcher, said, ‘I want to see the RFK documents,’ you could file a Freedom of Information Act request; that could take years and you may never actually get any access. So instead, we kind of flipped that process on its head and said we're going to start releasing large records collections together. And this is really the first time in a long time, maybe ever, that we've done it in this way. So if you’re a member of the public and you wanted to come and see the RFK files, you wouldn't have been able to do that.
Washington Reporter:
Why did you have the RFK files in NARA? He was never president.
Jim Byron:
That’s a good question. Most of these had to do with federal investigations, like the FBI files. Those end up at the National Archives. The best way to really describe the National Archives at a 30,000 foot level is that it is the final repository for all documents of the United States government. Everything ultimately ends up here.
Washington Reporter:
You had mentioned how Tulsi Gabbard herself was prioritizing this; from a staffing standpoint, how has NARA staff worked with the ODNI’s team? You mentioned that they had dispatched people to work with you. How has that working relationship been since you've started?
Jm Byron:
We're very grateful to Director Gabbard for her personal attention on this, and she's really seized the reins give given to her by President Trump, and used this as a way to demonstrate maximum transparency to the American people. I think that more of these types of records releases, no matter what's in the documents, but just very fact that we are declassifying, stripping them of redactions and releasing them, is a great demonstration of transparency. As Director Gabbard said, ‘the American people paid for this building. They deserve to know what's in it.’
Washington Reporter:
So let's delve into these documents. You mentioned 10,000 were released. What does that mean? 10,000 pieces of paper? What is a document here?
Jim Byron:
This is where the vernacular sometimes gets confusing. So you've got a record group.
Washington Reporter:
And what is the RFK collection?
Jim Byron:
It’s the files related to his assassonation. We've only released these 10,000 because these are the 10,000 we identified. Director Gabbard announced last Thursday that we had just discovered another 50,000 documents.
Washington Reporter:
Who is ‘we’?
Jim Byron:
The partnership between the National Archives and her Director’s Initiative Group. So the FBI said, ‘hey, we have another 50,000 records we just came across.’ So we transfer these. The FBI has transferred those to the National Archives. Now they need to go through that same process.
Washington Reporter:
So what are these 10,000 documents? Could that be a post-it note or a document, or an entire memo that is counted as one document?
Jim Byron:
Yes, and then they would be grouped. So you got a group, and within the group, you have individual records, and then within a record, you have a document or file, and we tend to just use all those different words interchangeably. So yes, what we're talking about is 10,000 pages.
Washington Reporter:
So these 10,000 pages were not the most important, not the least important. These were the 10,000 that were most readily accessible to you and the ODNI. So what was your working assumption on the theory of this assassination as a historian?
Jim Byron:
I hadn't really delved much into the assassination, per se. I looked more at RFK as a political force and a cultural phenomenon. I think one of the things out there that a lot of people still wonder is if RFK had not been assassinated, do you think he would have given former Vice President Richard Nixon a run for his money in 1968? There are different theories on that. I think the answer is no, because if you actually look at the math, by the time he was assassinated in June, Hubert Humphrey had already secured pledges of about 70 percent of the Democratic delegates. There were 1,312 delegates available, and Humphrey had secured in some form or another, about 1,200 of them. So it was virtually impossible for RFK to become the nominee. That said, look at the cultural significance of his having run. And he might have really been able to shape Humphrey's thinking on this, that or the other, in some way. So I always have kind of looked at RFK within that perspective.
Washington Reporter:
The conventional wisdom is that RFK was assassinated by Sirhan Sirhan, a Palestinian, because he was frustrated that RFK was supportive of Israel. There was a newspaper clipping found in Sirhan’s pocket about how RFK was supporting Israel. What do these 10,000 documents show? How does conventional wisdom stand after this latest document release in your estimation?
Jim Byron:
It's a great question, which everybody's asking. I will say this: within these 10,000 documents, and we know that there are going to be more documents, let's leave it up to the American people to conclude whatever they want, but know that more files are coming out. As I said, 50,000 more were just discovered that now have to be digitized and reviewed. I will say that within these 10,000 then, which everybody can see at archives.gov/rfk, these are files related to the FBI’s investigation into Sirhan Sirhan; the entire FBI San Diego field office file is available as part of these documents. And as you may know, Sirhan is incarcerated in San Diego right now. There are interviews with witnesses, interviews with people that were there. I just learned the other day that LA Rams player, Rosey Grier, who was on scene at the assassination.
Washington Reporter:
How much of these 10,000 files had never been seen before by the public?
Jim Byron:
So this is mostly brand new stuff. 10,000 actually is not a huge release in the documents world. It's big, but it's not huge. It is, however, the biggest release of RFK assassination related files ever released at once.
Washington Reporter:
What else is in this release?
Jim Byron:
The diary of Sirhan Sirhan, foreign cables. There are some State Department documents detailing foreign reaction from countries like Jordan, Sirhan Sirhan was a Jordanian-Palestinian. The Jordanian Government offered to help with the investigation, should the FBI want to go over and dig into Sirhan Sirhan’s background. That was stuff was really interesting. And the theory, there are alternative theories, there's this so-called woman in the polka dot dress that may or may not have been there. Witnesses, including some in these documents, say that they saw a woman in a polka dot dress who was seen leaving and was sort of happy saying ‘we shot Kennedy.’ People have different memories. But that's in there. People can dive into these for themselves, and they're a piece of a larger puzzle. I don't think that 100 percent of the people who are skeptical are ever going to be happy, but what we can be certain of is that we, the National Archives, release 100 percent of what we know to be out there, so that people can make up their minds, and so we can say ‘everything is out make up your own minds,’ and we're working on that right now.
Washington Reporter:
What has the involvement of RFK Jr been in the release of these documents?
Jim Byron:
Director Gabbard said publicly that he told her, ‘put everything out. The public has a right to know,’ and it is our understanding that President Trump asked Director Gabbard to show the documents to RFK Junior, which the director told us she had offered to do, and RFK Junior told her ‘just put everything out.’
Washington Reporter:
So he supportive of the whole of the effort that you guys are doing.
Jim Byron:
Very supportive:
Washington Reporter:
One of his theories of the assassination of his father is that it was a security guard who shot his father; what evidence of or not related to that is in this tranche of 10,000 documents?
Jim Byron:
These documents don't get into much of that. These are mostly FBI.
Washington Reporter:
What did the eyewitnesses testify in these 10,000 documents to having witnessed?
Jim Byron:
The path that the senator took following his remarks in the hotel changed. So he ended up changing his route and going through the kitchen. So people are unsure about why that route changed. These documents help prove why presidential candidate security is so important and why that was changed after Senator Kennedy's assassination. There was another interesting nugget within the documents, they would get tips and call-ins at the FBI. Somebody called in, this was actually investigated, and this is in the documents, somebody called in saying Senator Kennedy did not die in the kitchen. He was alive until 1969 when he died in Chappaquiddick.
Washington Reporter:
The Kennedys do have a violent history at Chappaquiddick.
Jim Byron:
That had to be investigated, and there’s a whole FBI report on that.
Washington Reporter:
What was the FBI fixated on in its investigation?
Jim Byron:
I’m not sure how the FBI divvied it up, but it’s interesting that the FBI San Diego field office handled some of it. He’s incarcerated in San Diego, so maybe that has something to do with it.
Washington Reporter:
To put a proverbial gun to your head here, who did it?
Jim Byron:
Based on these 10,000 documents, and what has been released, there’s not a lot of evidence in these documents that it was anyone other than Sirhan Sirhan.
Washington Reporter:
And is there evidence affirmatively in the investigation that Sirhan did do it? What does his diary show?
Jim Byron:
His diary certainly indicated prior intent for sure. The FBI’s conclusion was he was the guy.
Washington Reporter:
Maybe the other 50,000 will change this, but you don’t look at this and say that this changes everything?
Jim Byron:
In these 10,000 documents, there’s no smoking gun.
Washington Reporter:
These documents would corroborate Sirhan Sirhan as a lone gunman?
Jim Byron:
It appears that way, but let’s see what the next 50,000 reveal.
Washington Reporter:
Did Richard Nixon ever speculate on the assassination of RFK?
Jim Byron:
Speculate? I’m not so sure, but I know what Nixon said: Nixon in 1983 recalled when he first learned about Kennedy’s death and he said that Pat Nixon let him know early in the morning the following day, he said she was crying, and Nixon called Sirhan Sirhan a nut, and said that when he went to the funeral, Ted Kennedy delivered an excellent eulogy, and he said that that’s when he realized that Ted Kennedy was going to be a major political force in the ensuing days.
Washington Reporter:
Some of our readers are amateur archivists themselves. If there had been a smoking gun in these files, what would have set off your archivist’s spidey sense?
Jim Byron:
You have to look at context. This is what I meant earlier, when it has never been NARA’s methodology to start at the beginning of a record series to review it all in the end, if all these collections piecemeal, so really, to try and find something like that, you have to look at context. In my view, that shouldn't be anyone's objective. The objective should be just to read everything, read through it, understand what in context, to inform the American people and set that narrative better than when you have a preconceived notion or something, and you're digging through documents to try to meet that preconceived notion.
Washington Reporter:
President Trump’s executive order also dealt with declassifying the JFK and MLK assassinations. If you were to find a smoking gun as you're declassifying these documents, what happens?
Jim Byron:
Nothing happens.
Washington Reporter:
So you put it out, but then someone else takes credit for your work?
Jim Byron:
Well, it's not our work, we're just making it accessible. There’s a really intrepid and dedicated group of people who follow the JFK assassination files, and they've been following this since these Warren Commission. There was something like 12 million visits to archives.gov within the 24 hours following the JFK assassination files release. It was one of the biggest projects in the history of the National Archives.
Washington Reporter:
Is there a reason other than the effort that it takes that any of these, whether it's JFK, MLK, RFK documents that they had not been released prior to Trump's executive order?
Jim Byron:
I'll go back to the fact that it has never been known as our operational policy to review these types of collections all at once; only a few times in the past has ever been done. So I think absent a lot of interest, it would not have been done. President Trump on day three orders that this be done. And so we got it done, and we're working still on more RFK, and then we're working on MLK, and JFK.
Washington Reporter:
Of these three, JFK was the only one who was a president. How does NARA interact with the JFK presidential suite of organizations?
Jim Byron:
The JFK Library has access to everything. So actually, these are the assassination records. So these are outside of the JFK Library. In 1992, President Bush signed a law creating the President John F. Kennedy Records Collection, and an independent board was appointed under the terms of that law to get together and determine the scope of that collection. What President Trump did was he said, put everything out. So that's what we did. There's over 6 million pieces of film, documents, artifacts, newspaper clippings within the JFK collection, including the records of the Warren Commission. A number of those, the vast majority of those, have already been out in some form, but a lot of those have been out in redacted form, and so President Trump said, under the terms of this law, within the scope of this records collection, everything should go out to the maximum extent that it can. And that's why you see a lot of documents that had once been almost entirely blacked out and redacted that will now have no redactions on them, and redactions lead to theories. The whole point there was to show the American people what is in these collections, whether or not it leads to any differences in the way that we understand history or not. But the people have a right to know what's in it. And that goes for many, many other collections as well.
Washington Reporter:
And you can interpret this philosophically or not. But does the truth lie within these documents? Once all of these are 100 percent out with all three of these high profile cases, do you feel like the dust will settle and people will agree on a consensus?
Jim Byron:
What I would say is this: we are charged with putting out everything that we can, and at that point we let the chips fall where they may.
