Interview: “Innovative” with “Western values”: Rep. Ryan Zinke praises Doug Burgum ahead of hearing
Rep. Ryan Zinke was President Donald Trump's first Secretary of the Interior. Here's his advice to Trump's next Interior Secretary...
Rep. Ryan Zinke (R., Mont.), President Donald Trump’s former Secretary of the Interior “couldn’t be more thrilled” that Trump has tapped Doug Burgum for the job.
“Governor Burgum and I have become very close friends,” Zinke told the Washington Reporter in an interview. “I would describe him as super smart. He's innovative, but also he carries western values. He understands the water crisis. He certainly understands the value of Made in America energy. North Dakota itself is not about oil and gas. They're pretty broad in their spectrum…he also comes from a business background and understands that innovation and science should come to bear. And a lot of times with bureaucracy, the structure itself, it isn't a matter of putting more money in or taking more money out. You have to change the structure. So the structure can be, number one, efficient, but number two, also effective.”
As Interior Secretary, Zinke collaborated with governors of all political ideologies to help states respond to natural disasters; he worked closely with then-Governor Jerry Brown (D., Calif.), Burgum, who was then governor of North Dakota, and others.
“Doug understands the traditional values of the West like hunting and fishing and that protecting that legacy is a part of the West, and is part of the Western culture,” Zinke said. The Department of Interior, Zinke added, regularly hits above its batting average because there is a strong “misconception that energy was over in the Department of Energy, and that’s patently untrue.”
“The Department of Energy,” he explained, “is nuclear regulation and grants, but the production side of energy on federal lands and offshore is largely controlled and regulated by the Department of Interior.” It was President Trump, he noted, “who passed the Great American Outdoors Act, which was the largest investment in the history of this country in repairing the infrastructure on our national parks and forests.”
“Donald Trump was every bit what Teddy Roosevelt was on infrastructure and on energy. He understood why we had to be energy dominant,” he said.
As Burgum prepares to take over the Interior Department’s headquarters, which Zinke believes should remain in Washington, D.C., the ex-Navy SEAL had a simple piece of advice to the well-coiffed former governor.
“My advice is just be Governor Doug Burgum from the great state of North Dakota,” he said. “They're gonna love him.”
Below is a transcript of our interview with Rep. Ryan Zinke, lightly edited for clarity.
Washington Reporter:
Congressman Zinke, thanks for talking today. Joe Biden has been defending his foreign policy record. From your standpoint as a longtime Navy SEAL, what is your assessment of the world stage under Joe Biden?
Rep. Ryan Zinke:
It’s undefendable. I can't think of the theater of operations where we're in a better position than when President Trump left. We have an exhausting war in Ukraine with no plan, no strategy at $200 billion spent, we have Israel fighting primarily alone, being attacked by Iranian ICBMs, and while Israel has to a degree, mitigated some of the threat from Hezbollah and Hamas, the threat from the Houthis remains. We have a dictator now in Venezuela who has, by international standards, lost the election, yet is now a dictator in South America who the U.S. is getting oil from. And, of course, I haven't even talked about China. China is measuring the drapes in Taiwan. The principal threats are, if I had to rank him in order, Iran is probably the most unknown, followed by a solution has to be met in Ukraine, and China is emerging, if it hasn’t already arrived as a superpower trying to be equal to the United States.
Washington Reporter:
Republicans are about to have unified control of the government again next week; what do you think needs to change on energy policy?
Rep. Ryan Zinke:
We can’t be allowing Iran to circumnavigate sanctions to the tune of $80 billion, prioritizing dirty Venezuelan oil over North American crude, which primarily comes out of Canada. Energy creates a prosperous nation. I've always said that you should never put yourself in a position where you're vulnerable, as we were in the 70s. Jimmy Carter just passed away, and it was a reminder that part of Jimmy Carter's downfall was the OPEC crisis which strangled the U.S. and energy. Going back to a Trump policy of being dominant in energy is imperative. One thing that people don't talk about is that when I was Interior Secretary, we went From 8.3 to 12.5 million barrels of oil a day in just two years. But we also significantly lowered emissions, and we had the best safety record ever in the history of Interior because we initiated what I call no-notice inspections, just like we did in the Navy. You can have it all, even as the demands for energy have exponentially increased, in the pursuit of AI and the power it takes to drive these data centers.
Washington Reporter:
What surprised you the most when you started as Secretary of this sprawling department?
Rep. Ryan Zinke:
Well, there was a misconception that energy was over in the Department of Energy. And that’s patently untrue. The Department of Energy, as you know, is nuclear regulation and grants, but the production side of energy on federal lands and offshore is largely controlled and regulated by the Department of Interior. So ironically, President Trump, both on energy, we became dominant in some areas of energy, but also on the environment, it was Donald J. Trump who passed the Great American Outdoors Act, which was the largest investment in the history of this country on repairing the infrastructure on our national parks and forests. On both categories, Donald Trump was every bit what Teddy Roosevelt was on infrastructure and on energy. He understood why we had to be energy dominant.
Washington Reporter:
You see these devastating wildfires hitting Los Angeles right now. Is there anything that you think from a Trump Interior Department that can be done to mitigate the damage the future disasters will do, whether it's wildfires or anything else domestically facing the United States?
Rep. Ryan Zinke:
Well, ironically, I was looking at my phone and I was with Governor Brown in Paradise when that Paradise Fire hit, and that blew through an entire town that could have killed 10,000 people in a heartbeat. It was just the blocks and blocks and blocks of devastation. On the state side, California put a billion dollar-plus bond to build water storage. And they haven't spent a nickel on it, and they pay $750,000 for the Los Angeles power and water administrator and her number one priority is diversity. The number one priority. You’d think it'd be water storage. On the federal side, on the federal forest, better management practices are long overdue, but in California, for instance, as Interior Secretary, I was a big advocate of controlled burns, because of the underbrush. There are a lot of reasons for controlled burn; I could not get a clean air permit in Yosemite, because the state of California was the authority on air permits and not the federal government. And then you had fire trucks that were ready to come down from Oregon, but they didn't meet the California emission standards. So California declined; are you kidding me, in the middle of a fire? This is the problem that now California faces amidst the largest insurance claim on fires, for sure, and perhaps hurricanes, because, considering what it is and what the damage on this. From the federal side, what policies are going to change? You can't expect America to pay for really bad policies.
Washington Reporter:
Another Governor you worked with, in addition to Brown when you were Interior Secretary, was Doug Burgum. I imagine that was night and day. Can you talk about your relationship with him as governor, back when you were Interior Secretary and now?
Rep. Ryan Zinke:
Governor Burgum and I have become very close friends. I would describe him as super smart. He's innovative, but also he carries western values. He understands the water crisis. He certainly understands the value of Made in America energy. North Dakota itself is not about oil and gas. They're pretty broad in their spectrum. They do have water too, and I couldn't be more thrilled. I think Doug Burgum is a perfect pick for Interior because he understands the Western issues. But he also comes from a business background and understands that innovation and science should come to bear. And a lot of times with bureaucracy, the structure itself, it isn't a matter of putting more money in or taking more money out. You have to change the structure. So the structure can be, number one, efficient, but number two also effective.
Washington Reporter:
Can you talk about the significance of this job for sportsmen in particular?
Rep. Ryan Zinke:
Doug understands the traditional values of the West like hunting and fishing and that protecting that legacy is a part of the West, and is part of the Western culture. I remember I put a Buck Master, which was an arcade game, in the bottom of Interior at the large mess hall. It was interesting to see the disdain of hunting from a department that should champion it. And another quick example is the duck stamps. The duck stamps are from hunters. When I put a dog, you know, rather than a nature scene of a duck, oh my gosh, it was crazy. Hunting is part of this, but duck stamps are paid for by hunting, and hunting, in many cases, provides the conservation.
Washington Reporter:
Do you think that there's merit to moving the Department of Interior out of Washington, D.C.?
Rep. Ryan Zinke:
I think the headquarters should be where the headquarters are, because there's value added to meeting every day, and with the President, certainly a lot of the department is better served outside of D.C. But there are agencies that can be moved. I moved BLM out of D.C., out west, number one, where the problems of BLM reign supreme, which is mostly in the Mountain West. But also quality of life; if you're a young GS, let's say 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, in that area, and you're going to make this a career, growing, having kids, having a family in D.C. is pretty rough and in many cases is unaffordable. I moved the people and their positions out to Colorado, and then when Deb Haaland came in, she moved the positions back. But you know, what didn’t come back?
Washington Reporter:
The workers.
Rep. Ryan Zinke:
The people. They're all remote, because quality of life is better out there. And we looked at cities across our nation, in the West, and the South, to move things out of D.C. and closer to people. If you're going to manage the oceans, it'd be nice to be on an ocean. If you're going to manage a forest, it might be good to be out there. When the smoke came across D.C. and you were outraged? Well, think of the outrage when you see it all summer long, every summer.
Washington Reporter:
What advice do you have for Burgum? He's going into confirmations and will be voted on, and presumably will be Secretary of the Interior, before potentially even the month is out.
Rep. Ryan Zinke:
My advice is just be Governor Doug Burgum from the great state of North Dakota. They're gonna love him.
Washington Reporter:
Congressman Zinke, thank you chatting.